I've got Fusion-Fatigue

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November 3rd, 2005, 01:32 AM
djmuskateer

Er, how do you guys quote on this board? I've never been able to find the quote button. So in the meantime, I cutted and pasted:

Rodge Quote

I know what you mean Man, but in same time nobody force you to listen this music...
And why alway assimilate Vinnie with the fusion's music ?
Yeah he sure does a lot of sessions for this music, but he does so much stuff too...

Hi Rodge - basically I asosciate Vinnie with this type of music because I don't buy it unless he's on it... I love the 70s Jazz-Fusion, and I love most jazz since and before then too, just not the current 'west-coast fusion' vibe. And I appreciate he does a lot of other stuff, I suppose I was wishing he did a greater percentage of other stuff versus fusion. And as for noboby forcing me... thats why I;m not listening to them!

I think part of the problem I have with Karizma etc is that it is an odd mixture of being a little bit insipid (in that it doesn't rock, but neither does it swing and its not always particularly funky [although Vinnie personally often embodies al three of those characteristics even if the songs don't so much]) but also very choppy and balls-out playing. And I love it when Vinnie goes for it, but you appreciate it more if its in the middle of some more contrasting groove playing. Its like if you saw a whole bunch of diamonds on the floor - after a while they'd all blend into each other and you wouldn't know where to look. But if you saw two or three diamonds among a bunch of, I dunno, breakfast cereal or something, they'd stand out more and perhaps have more value and excitement.

Oh dear. Just re-read that last bit - I'm sorry, I get all descriptive when I can't sleep...
November 3rd, 2005, 01:37 AM
Suspiria

muskateer, can you see the black quotation marks found after each quote? If you click that you will be able to reply to a certain post and quote any part of it you want. Hope that helps.

EDIT: Circled it in red for you. [img]wink.gif[/img]
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/8673/quote0gc.th.png

[ November 02, 2005 09:42 PM: Message edited by: Suspiria ]
November 3rd, 2005, 01:47 AM
spaceotter

Hey Ned,

Yep--go through fluctuations of this all the time. I'm on a fusion upswing at the moment after OD-ing on it through the 80s and early 90s. I put away my Chick Corea and Pattituci and Scofield CDs in 93 because I couldn't feel it anymore. Listening to many of my former favorite players actually made me feel...jumpy, kind of...well, edgy. Or, I kept thinking, "someone call me when (insert player name here) plays something new/gives up math rock for something more soulful/stops playing so many notes/has a mad mushroom trip on the top of Mt. Fuji and removes the musical chip on their shoulder for which they are clearly overcompensating." (No names, no flames.) So I got fascinated with some other stuff for a while--various electronic, world and hipster stuff, prog rock, pop, funk and soul. And focused on other interests besides drums. Fiction, poetry, writing, visual arts, dance, science, philosophy, business...it's all good. Whatever it takes to follow the magic and not bore yourself. There is more to life than fusion. Or drums, or even music. (Perhaps this is also a recipie for a dilletante...er..."renaissance guy"...aka amatuer. Who knows. Many of my best teachers in various areas have named obsession as a necessary ingredient to greatness/genius.)

I do believe you feed it back into your playing. Everything feeds everything on some basic level. Staying engaged is sometimes challenging in an overstimulating world, paradoxically enough. Everything is faster, more complex, more styles, more subdivisions, chop chop chop, more more more.

Maybe part of the solution is to pare down a bit. I did start turning to Zen and Taoist stuff after my fusion binge as fusion in its own way is an exercise in overload. I mean, how much Vinnie, Dave, Virg and Dennis can you listen to before your palate gets dulled, and you need a good cleanse, need to go a different direction for a while? Fusion is a rather rich diet. Lao Tzu (supposed author of the Tao Te Ching, though he may be an amalgam of other historical figures) advises each day taking something away, paring down, guarding the senses from overload, counteracting life's consistent tendency for ever more complexity. Becoming more sensitive to what's in front of you. After my tweekery fusion days (not literally drug-inspired, mind you) this was some good counsel.

Maybe you just need to change up, focus on what's essential for you. Makes perfect sense to me.

peace==otter
November 3rd, 2005, 01:59 AM
djmuskateer

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Suspiria:
[QB]muskateer, can you see the black quotation marks found after each quote? If you click that you will be able to reply to a certain post and quote any part of it you want. Hope that helps.

Wow! Thanks Suspiria, I wonder if this will work. Also, I like the fact that it was your own quote of your own quote that you showed me on, very post-modern...

Otter - I like the analogy, yes, the musical pallette does need to be cleansed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not upset about it (plenty to listen to in the meantime). I think its true that everything we, as drummers, listen to ultimately feeds back into our playing in some way. Perhaps I'm not devouring Vinnie recordings as I used to because my regular gig is in a genre (drum&bass) that his playing really can't influence me in. I started drumming becasue of Vinnie, over the ten-odd years since I've tried to apply something of his influence to everything I've done musically, but now I've really stripped down my drumming (quitting a couple of fun bands in different styles) I'm left playing about the one style I've never heard him do! (Apart from hinting at it on Hidden Treasures from Jinh Chi 3D.)
November 3rd, 2005, 02:00 AM
djmuskateer

Hmmm, still doesn't look like when the rest of you quote. I guess I'm just not cut out for quoting...
November 3rd, 2005, 02:45 AM
Suspiria

Quote:

Originally posted by muskateer:
Hmmm, still doesn't look like when the rest of you quote. I guess I'm just not cut out for quoting...

I wont shut up until you learn how to quote! [img]wink.gif[/img]
You nearly got it right, except you must have deleted the last part, that looks like this:

"[/QB][/QUOTE]" The "/" is a command used to show the end of something. So the phrase I put into quotation marks basically means: End of quoting in bold (QB) and end of quote(QUOTE).

It can't be that hard...
November 3rd, 2005, 12:05 PM
djmuskateer

Quote:

Originally posted by Suspiria:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by muskateer:
Hmmm, still doesn't look like when the rest of you quote. I guess I'm just not cut out for quoting...

I wont shut up until you learn how to quote! [img]wink.gif[/img]
You nearly got it right, except you must have deleted the last part...<hr /></blockquote>Its true I did delete the last part, but this time I've taken the dynamic step of leaving the last part and editing the post at the same time - surely the holy grail of quoting! if this doesn't work I'll be so embarassaed I'll have to stop disliking Virgil Donati and go and post on his board instead...

Here goes!
November 3rd, 2005, 12:07 PM
djmuskateer

Yes! Jurassic Park!
November 3rd, 2005, 06:04 PM
got_a_matchgrip

Good posts, esp Riddim's.

There's ALL kinds of music out there. Many diff styles AWA blends ["fusions"] of 2 or more. Even some of the popular music out there has been influenced over the years by differing stylistic genres. No news there to all of you, i'm sure.

Prince is a prime example of a pop artist that incorporates lots of funk, soul, RnB, blues, & some jazz into his tunes &/or live shows. I'm not concerned w his private life, his journey has appeared to be one of great egocentricity, but it is some his music [AWA musos] i'm referring to. Some of it i don't care for at all, but some of it i consider having great genre-crossing sensibilities within pop. Sting does a bit of this AW, altho stylistically, differing degrees than Prince, of course.

I realize i'm being a bit analytical & philosophical here, but i am not one of those that typecast something that has more notes, or "chops" as they say, as somehow being "less" musical - if anything, it is "more." [img]wink.gif[/img]
Having more notes does not mean "less musical" no more than a simple, simple pop tune or ballad is somehow lacking because it isn't "more involved." it's just differing aspects of music for differing personalities or moods.

I'm not concerned at all with taking the extreme sides of philosophies that pervade...those who pee & moan about the "chops" stuff, or the chops fans crying about how something is "too easy" or "simple." A tune doesn't have to have a quadragazillion notes to be viable, nor does a tune "s*ck" if it is simple, necessarily.

I just enjoy whatever i'm enjoying at the moment within the context of what it is, AWA my mood ATT...& nothing more. If one person likes chops heavy fusion, more power to them; if pop ballads, no big deal. I think I'm also a prime example of someone who's binged & purged on several different styles - pop, rock, etc, AWA fusion at any given time in the past...it's just a normal emotional-psyche process. If i listened to rip-your-head-off chopos all the time, i'd prob be one high-strung individual all the time. But sometimes, i'm in the [adrenalined] mood. [img]wink.gif[/img]

There's too many styles & too much music out there to enjoy, & let folks live & let live... [img]cool.gif[/img] Just don't force-feed me bubble-gum tooth-rot, commercial radio, or CnW in my face 365/24/7 & we'll be allright [no wars will occur]... [img]tongue.gif[/img]
November 3rd, 2005, 10:26 PM
peter b

Quote:

Originally posted by Suspiria:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Riddim:
But music needs more than difficulty of execution to be rewarding.

At the moment I am listening to a lot of old Toto material, plenty of latin stuff, clapton, bob marley, kansas, nine inch nails, the police...etc...the list goes on. Fusion can never touch me on an emotional level like that.<hr /></blockquote>yes.....you and hundreds of millions of other people. that is why 'POP' is king and the greatest 'fusion' musicians in the world can't get more than 200 people in a club. it's ALL emotion.

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